Pete Ware Interview
by Jeremy Kay & Mark Bennett
Pete Ware co-wrote/produced SAW's first three records (Andy Paul "Anna-Maria Elena", Agents Aren't Aeoplanes "The Upstroke" and Divine "You Think You're A Man"). Eager to know more about the mystery man of SAW, cafe80s tracked Pete down to his private studio in England's West Midlands.

How did the collaboration between yourself and Stock & Aitken come about and what had you been doing before this?

I was running an 8 track studio on the East India docks called Bumper-Sound and Mike (Stock) came in to record some demos. We got on well, I joined his bands NIGHTWORK and MIRAGE as keyboard player and then, with my partner Tony Cook and Matt Aitken (guitar) - who was sleeping at our flat at the time we agreed to upgrade the studio to 24 track. We installed this in Mike's basement, much to the consternation of his wife - who had to put up with our racket every evening.

Could you define the roles of yourself, Mike, Matt & Pete at that time. Who did what exactly?

Mike played bass and was the strongest songwriter, Matt was a good guitarist and had a good musical ear. I played keys and did most of the recording and studio trouble-shooting.

Did any other musicians or engineers work on these early records? Who mixed them?

We played everything and mixed everything ourselves with the exception of YOU THINK YOU'RE A MAN which was mixed at Marquee Studios by Phil Harding.

Where were they recorded and what was the atmosphere like in those days?

Andy Paul and Agents were recorded at CSW Studios. Some early Divine bits were programmed there, but Divine recorded "You Think" at THE MARQUEE. The strings on ANNA MARIE... were recorded at Hollywood Studios in Clapton, East London.

The atmosphere was great, because although we were trying to be a production team, nobody knew what would happen later on. It was exciting.

Did you originally plan to be a permanent member of the SAW team?

Absolutely yes. The situation went wrong because Pete Waterman was giving me session work on the side and Mike Stock wanted a share of my fees. I felt that this was utilising a skill that I had already mastered and wasn't therefore fair. We argued over it and then this actually quite minor wrangle got blown out of proportion and I felt I had to walk away. To this day I wonder whether the argument was 'managed' by Mike Stock and Pete Waterman.

Proto was connected loosely with Pete Waterman and was involved with Divine and Hazell Dean (who remains a close friend of mine to this day).

The record company was situated above a Greek restaurant wasn't it?

It was upstairs in office space in Kentish Town if my memory serves - I don't specifically remember a restaurant.

What was Barry Evangeli like?

He was always polite and pleasant with me (we worked on further DIVINE records after I'm So Beautiful). I'm given to understand that he absconded with a lot of DIVINE and Hazell's royalties, but I was paid.

Andy Paul

Sort of! We wrote the song and put it together. Andy was a studio client at the time.

Did you think this was a strange project to get involved with and who was Andy Paul?

On the first day of recording, we had forgotten that Andy was coming in, so Mike dashed upstairs and wrote the song whilst Matt and I kept Andy talking!!

So far as we were concerned, it was a good giggle.

Agents Aren't Aeroplanes

AGENTS were friends of mine. I liked the way they looked and felt that we could do something with them. By the way, their name came from the first line of the book 'The Spy who came in from the cold' ....Agents aren't aeroplanes, they rarely arrive on time (something like that).

Was it a direct re-creation of the Trevor Horn/Frankie sound or were there other influences?

Blue Monday was a bigger influence than Frankie.

Pete Ware (left) & Divine

I don't know exactly who introduced who! (get it?)

Do you have any memories of the Divine Sessions ? What was he like to work with? We hear that he did his songs in one or two takes & then flew back to the states, is this true?

Divine's sessions were always fun. He did his stuff very quickly and easily. 'YOU THINK...' backing vocals are me and Mike.

Who produced the Divine b-side "Give It Up"? The credit reads "Written by The Toy Shop, A Pete Waterman Production". We've discovered that The Toy Shop was Philip Walsh & Paul Klein.

Sorry, I can't remember.

Were you familiar with Divine before you worked with him? Did you see any of his films? Any comments?

Not until the first session, but I became very fond of him, we toured Europe together later on. He was a special guy!!

Which other underground Hi-NRG tracks at the time were influencing these early productions, can you remember any?

We picked up all sorts of stuff from people like Jolly and Swaine (IMAGINATION), Paul McCartney (so help us!) Anything at all really.

Level 42 and Soft Cell were in there too somewhere...

Hazell Dean

I was knocked out by the speed and scale of SAW's success. I was quite bitter for a while as I had worked hard to help get us all into a position where we might have hit records.

Wasn't "Whatever I Do" a re-write of another song by Michael Prince?

Was Michael Prince another pseudonym of Mike Stock? He used the name D'Almaine too - it was the name on his piano. If that's the case, I think it was written as a demo for Debby Mac and re-worked. I may be wrong though.

Did you first work with Hazell on "Danger" for the "Always" album?

That was the first time recording other than demos, but I had re-made Searchin' for TV a couple of times and we kept bumping into each other. She's lovely.

I loved the Abba album you did with Hazell Dean. How did she track you down all those years later?

We kept in touch all the way through. I like the ABBA tribute - my life was in turmoil at the time and the studio sessions became a sanctuary for me. We both really enjoyed that project. It became personal - not just a production job.

Why the ABBA concept album, was that Hazell's idea?

We pulled up a deal with Carlton - they paid for the production. I think Hazell suggested it during a meeting.

At this point Mike and Pete were trying to deny my existence. There was quite a lot of untrue s**t talked about me as well.

Apart from the 3 records we know about, did you work on any others with Mike & Matt that never got released?

Milke's brother released two versions of a song called 1-9 for a Lady Breaker (CB radios were in at the time). there were other records - I'd have to have some time to think though. There were loads of demos and stuff.

Was it your decision not to continue working on further productions at PWL?

No! I was squeezed out.

What did you think of the material they did for Dead or Alive? It was a continuation of what you'd been doing with Divine, wasn't it?

I was at the Marquee when Pete Burns sang his vocal. I admit I was impressed by the sound of the record and stunned by the way they looked.

What were you doing at this time? Did you carry on producing Hi-NRG tracks or did you do other things?

It was like snakes and ladders, I ended up playing in a pub 4 nights a week.

When you worked with Stock Aitken & Waterman in those crucial early days did you envision that they would become so successful?

No I envisioned that WE would eventually become successful.

What do you think was the key to their success, do you think it was Mike's songwriting?

Partly the songwriting. Mike had a real talent for wrapping up simple ideas in an attractive package. Matt was musical and steady. Pete Waterman knew the business very well and was already very successful. I guess that for a while at least, their fusion of skills was a winning combination. We had been discussing song formats and so on extensively. Many of the hits brought the chorus line or tune to the front of the record - which fitted in well with DJs who wanted to keep their atmosphere up all the time - it was a kind of revolution in song styles although I don't suppose many people cottoned on to the formula.

Were you a fan of their music throughout, and if so which tracks are your personal favourites?

I really liked the Mel and Kim stuff. I hated some of the other stuff - it became really naff after a while.

When did you last see Mike Stock & Matt Aitken? Did you stay in touch?

Mike had some problems with personal threats and I knew lots of dodgy East-End characters. I helped sort it out and went to the studio a couple more times (The Vineyard, Sanctuary St).

Mike and Pete were obnoxious to me. Matt was apologetic and we two went for an Indian. He said he couldn't believe how they had re-written events regarding me to suit themselves.

How do you feel about them splitting up?

I don't feel anything either way - it was a long time ago so far as I was concerned. I'd quite like to meet Matt again. Of them all he was the easiest to like - and by virtue of his up-bringing, most deserving of success.

Crikey, your research has thrown up some tunes!! I didn't deliberately ape anybody, but you have to go with the trends!

And we've been following your other collaborations with Hazell (Miquel Brown, Tina Charles, Vanessa etc). Do you plan to do more work together or with any of the other Hi-NRG Divas?

Sure, if the opportunity arises!

Hazell is developing as a songwriter isn't she?

Hazell has always had something to offer as a songwriter - I wonder what may yet emerge.

I see from your website that you've made a lot of Bhangra music recently. Is this a passion of yours?

Bhangra was musical survival for me after SAW. It saw me through the property collapse at the end of the eighties and has fed me and my family many times. I wouldn't say it was a passion, although I have lots of good Asian friends. I liked the fact that it was a corner of the business that nobody else knew anything about and that I could capitalise on.

So what are you currently working on and are there any current projects you could you tell us about?

I worked with a gentle scouser called Charlie Landsborough throughout most of the 90's. I now produce his albums for Telstar. I am about to emigrate to the South of Spain with my family and plan to open a studio there. My studio 'THE PARROTHOUSE' has been my livelyhood since I stopped trying to cope with business partners! I am pleased to say that it is running well. I lecture in a college sometimes as well.

What do you think of the current state of pop music?

I guess that it is much the same business as always, but the public are more aware of its cut-throat nature. Musically, its inane. I wish somebody would break through all this slick, marketed trash - and shake the business like punk did in the late 70's.

There is a distinct lack of Hi-NRG based pop in the charts at the moment, do you think it will ever see a return to mainstream pop?

Everything seems to go full circle, so I guess it will all happen again. I loved the eighties styles and wacky nature. The 90's all became to straight-laced for me.

If you could choose to produce pop in any particular style which style would it be?

Call me soft, but I don't really care. I love it all really.

For more information visit http://www.parrothouse.co.uk/

Interview conducted 24 January 2003. Jeremy and Mark wish to thank Pete for his time. Main image courtesy of clickwalla.com